Subject: Still slow
To: None <current-users@NetBSD.ORG>
From: alphaepsilon <aellwood@MIT.EDU>
List: current-users
Date: 08/02/1995 11:13:00
Hi, I upgraded to XFree86 3.1.2 last night and my garbled colormap
problems have gone away. In fact I seem to have fixed all but one of
the problems I reported earlier (with help -- thanks guys).
Unfortunately that is the problem I have had since I first updated to
current. X still gets slow.
Sorry this is so long. I'm trying to provide as much info as I can.
Why I think this is a bug and not slow hardware:
* X starts out fast. Really zippy fast. Commands like ps, ls, more,
etc are really fast. I can generally get two xterms and one emacs
up. The second emacs usually starts the slowdown, even if I close
the first one before opening the second one.
* Very rarely it starts out fast and never gets slow.
* When it starts out fast I can do an infinite number of things which
don't open windows, and it will never slow down.
* The slowdown appears to be based on the number of windows that have
been opened, not on the number of windows that *are* open at a time.
* Closing everything does not speed it up again, only killing X.
* The slowdowns started to occur after updating to May 15th current
from 1.0. I had not changed the version of X (3.1.1 at the time).
NetBSD 1.0 and XFree86 3.1.1 never slowed down at all.
* When I updated to Jul 16th current the problem got worse (it now
gets slow much sooner).
My machine:
-----------
NCR Pentium motherboard with 16MB RAM, Phoenix BIOS, and a P90 processor
PCI NCR SCSI-II card
1 gig HP SCSI-II drive
240 meg Quantum SCSI-I drive
PCI ATI Mach64 with 2MB DRAM
ISA SMC Elite 16C Ultra ethernet card
ISA Sound Blaster 16
I have turned off *all* caching in setup except for BIOS shadowing.
For some reason it won't let me disable that.
Under 1.0 this machine was wonderfully fast, both when running X and
not. I have thought about downgrading to 1.0 but it seems too much of
a hassle and I worry that if this is a bug, it will be in the next
release of NetBSD if I don't try to fix it now.
Kernel builds and other major memory hogging operations do not create
this behavior. Netscape, when popped up on another machine's console
does not cause the slowdown.
What happens:
This is going to be a pretty qualitative description, but I'm hoping
the more info I give, the better someone can direct me as to what is
going on.
Basically I start X and it seems great. I start up 2 xterms and both
seem fine. Then I start up an emacs and that seems fine. However, if
I start up another emacs, or start up netscape (or chimera or Mosaic)
instead of the first emacs, I get the following behavior:
* reads and writes to and from the hard drive take a really long time.
If I watch the hard drive indicator light it's pretty obvious why it's
slow. The light flashes about once a second. Basically I'm dependent
on the seek time of the drive, and I have to wait a second on top of
that.
* commands (like ps, ls, more -- cd is fast but it's a shell builtin)
take a really long time:
When X is slow:
---------------
aellwood@tetrahydrocannabinol: /usr/bin/time ps augxww
USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TT STAT STARTED TIME COMMAND
[...]
46.15 real 0.10 user 0.13 sys
When X just started:
--------------------
aellwood@tetrahydrocannabinol: /usr/bin/time ps augxww
USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TT STAT STARTED TIME COMMAND
1.57 real 0.03 user 0.20 sys
With no X running:
------------------
aellwood@tetrahydrocannabinol: /usr/bin/time ps augxww
USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TT STAT STARTED TIME COMMAND
[...]
0.30 real 0.06 user 0.10 sys
* vmstat output looks really crazy when X is running. Note I have 50
megs of swap:
vmstat 2 without X:
-------------------
procs memory page disks faults cpu
r b w avm fre flt re pi po fr sr ?0 ?1 ?2 ?3 in sy cs us sy id
0 6 0 42692 3408 3 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 25 3 1 0 99
0 6 0 42692 3408 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 17 3 0 0 100
0 6 0 42692 3408 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 14 2 0 0 100
>start emacs
0 6 0 63560 3164 260 152 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 150 13 6 6 88
0 6 0 63560 3164 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 51 2 2 1 97
0 6 0 63560 3164 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 12 2 0 0 100
>kill emacs
0 6 0 42700 3544 16 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 61 7 0 1 99
0 6 0 42700 3544 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 17 2 0 0 100
0 6 0 38104 3544 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 16 3 0 0 100
0 6 0 38104 3544 117 27 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 311 10 6 2 92
0 6 0 38104 3544 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 20 5 0 0 100
0 6 0 38104 3544 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 15 4 0 0 100
vmstat 2 with X without slowdown:
---------------------------------
procs memory page disks faults cpu
r b w avm fre flt re pi po fr sr ?0 ?1 ?2 ?3 in sy cs us sy id
0 6 02208804 336 3 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 25 3 1 0 99
0 6 02191580 336 3 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 210 57 0 1 99
0 6 02179204 336 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 60 5 2 0 97
0 6 02154408 336 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 19 5 0 0 100
0 6 02154408 336 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 25 7 0 0 100
>start emacs
0 8 02174608 300 256 128 10 0 0 47 0 0 0 0 0 289 130 12 10 78
0 6 02174740 312 78 9 9 1 0 39 0 0 0 0 0 964 246 15 10 75
0 6 02174796 328 48 5 10 9 0 43 0 0 0 0 0 1151 310 32 18 50
0 6 02174796 328 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 291 66 0 0 100
0 6 02174796 328 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 481 112 2 0 98
0 6 02162292 328 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 21 4 0 0 100
1 6 02157696 328 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 281 64 0 0 100
>kill emacs
0 6 02137332 1008 12 1 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 345 71 4 2 94
0 6 02137332 1008 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 228 52 0 0 100
0 6 02137332 1008 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 160 36 0 0 100
0 6 02137332 1008 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 177 39 0 0 100
0 6 02137184 1008 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 40 10 0 0 100
Isn't that a really large value for "avm"?
vmstat 2 with X when it starts to slowdown:
-------------------------------------------
procs memory page disks faults cpu
r b w avm fre flt re pi po fr sr ?0 ?1 ?2 ?3 in sy cs us sy id
1 6 02154436 804 3 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 26 3 1 0 99
0 6 02154436 804 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 168 41 1 0 99
0 6 02154436 804 6 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 162 42 2 2 96
0 6 02154436 804 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 69 17 0 0 99
0 6 02149840 804 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 21 5 0 0 100
0 6 02149840 804 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 59 5 2 1 96
>start netscape
0 8 02165040 496 90 8 21 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 80 31 1 4 94
0 8 02165252 304 95 59 62 24 0 171 0 0 0 0 0 610 234 6 14 81
0 8 02165492 260 66 9 37 50 0 244 0 0 0 0 0 219 102 10 8 82
1 7 02165692 340 72 75 55 29 0 186 0 0 0 0 0 242 142 16 12 71
0 8 02153280 260 83 0 39 0 0 67 0 0 0 0 0 669 185 50 23 27
0 6 02153656 296 41 0 10 0 0 44 0 0 0 0 0 438 117 56 8 35
0 8 02153712 284 20 0 14 0 0 12 0 0 0 0 0 1031 279 13 10 77
0 6 02154052 272 89 0 40 0 0 44 0 0 0 0 0 634 92 24 8 68
>everything starts to get really jerky and slow
0 6 02158796 272 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 413 95 19 3 78
0 8 02158796 256 4 0 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 496 89 10 2 88
0 8 02157528 340 1 0 1 0 0 11 0 0 0 0 0 42 9 0 0 100
0 7 02144796 340 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 75 8 2 2 96
0 8 02149592 328 2 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 18 6 0 0 100
0 8 02144996 324 2 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 20 6 0 0 100
0 8 02149732 312 2 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 109 16 2 2 97
017 02149732 328 5 3 2 0 0 4 0 0 0 0 0 118 27 0 0 100
0 8 02149732 328 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 45 10 1 0 99
0 8 02149732 320 2 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 21 5 0 0 100
0 8 02149584 312 2 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 22 6 0 0 100
0 8 02136720 308 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 81 11 4 0 96
0 8 02124440 296 2 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 46 11 0 0 100
0 8 02124440 288 2 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 45 12 0 0 100
0 7 02137304 272 3 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 349 68 1 0 98
0 6 02137312 268 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 361 68 0 1 99
0 7 02137312 340 2 0 2 3 0 13 0 0 0 0 0 465 61 2 2 96
0 8 02137312 332 2 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 39 11 2 0 98
0 8 02137312 324 2 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 32 7 0 0 100
0 7 02137312 312 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 21 4 2 0 98
0 8 02132716 292 3 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 14 3 0 0 100
0 8 02132716 284 2 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 61 5 2 2 96
0 8 02132716 272 2 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 19 5 0 0 100
0 7 02132724 264 5 0 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 229 16 8 2 90
>netscape stops loading and the mouse starts moving again
0 8 02127928 340 2 31 0 15 0 57 0 0 0 0 0 392 81 0 0 99
0 8 02127780 340 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 513 106 0 0 100
0 7 02127780 340 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 197 33 2 1 97
0 7 02127780 340 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 257 54 1 0 99
0 7 02127780 340 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 148 31 0 0 100
0 7 02127856 340 4 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 0 0 315 37 2 0 97
0 7 02132652 272 42 0 19 0 0 11 0 0 0 0 0 344 61 15 5 80
0 7 02132692 264 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 453 79 3 1 96
0 8 02145180 340 6 16 0 17 0 49 0 0 0 0 0 23 6 2 0 98
0 8 02132328 340 24 7 16 12 0 40 0 0 0 0 0 597 92 9 4 87
procs memory page disks faults cpu
r b w avm fre flt re pi po fr sr ?0 ?1 ?2 ?3 in sy cs us sy id
1 8 02132328 340 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 90 18 1 0 99
0 8 02127732 340 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 21 5 2 0 98
1 8 02132468 340 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 232 36 3 1 96
0 8 02132468 340 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 117 22 0 0 100
1 7 02132468 340 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 106 20 0 0 100
1 6 02132468 340 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 133 25 1 0 99
0 6 02132320 340 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 169 31 0 0 100
0 6 02132320 340 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 62 5 2 1 97
0 6 02120040 340 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 92 18 0 0 100
0 6 02120040 340 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 455 77 0 0 100
0 6 02132904 340 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 723 122 1 0 99
>try to quit netscape
0 8 02132912 256 13 0 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 285 54 1 1 98
0 8 02132912 336 2 0 1 0 0 11 0 0 0 0 0 65 8 2 2 96
0 6 02132912 332 4 0 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 491 73 2 1 98
0 6 02132912 328 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 474 80 3 0 97
0 7 02132912 328 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 163 32 5 0 95
0 7 02128316 328 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 38 9 0 0 100
0 7 02128316 328 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 83 11 2 1 97
0 7 02128316 324 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 25 5 0 0 100
0 7 02128316 324 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 17 5 0 0 100
>netscape quits
0 8 02138372 1536 4 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 90 19 5 1 94
0 7 02138224 1536 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 76 17 1 0 99
0 6 02138224 1536 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 90 12 3 0 97
0 6 02138224 1536 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 192 45 1 0 99
0 6 02138224 1536 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 137 30 0 0 100
0 6 02138224 1536 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 72 16 0 0 100
* In slow mode I tried to launch an emacs to paste the above output
into. It took 1.5 mins to give me something to position and then 30
seconds for me to be able to type into it (it sets colors and resizes
itself during this). After it had loaded it was terribly slow to load
and save files.
* Eventually, if the system is left up in slow mode, it gets so slow it
stops pinging and then hangs (not eternally, just for a reallly
reallly long time). Ctrl-Alt-Backspace does nothing, even if left
for 8 hours (tried just waiting).
* If I do manage to kill X before it gets that slow, X comes up again
fine without rebooting. Again it is fast until I run too many
windows.
It seems to me that something is wrong with the behavior of the
virtual memory system when X is running. Unfortunately I don't
understand the internals of the vm system to be able to say more than
that (which is why I'm writing here :-)
If anyone has *any* ideas, or any suggestions on what might give more
clueful output, please please please tell me. The term is going to
start soon, and I need my computer working so I can do my classwork on
it. And if anyone in the Boston area is psyched to help me debug it,
you are welcome. Debugging remotely is almost impossible because in
slow mode, people can't log in remotely -- it takes 10-20 minutes just
to get logged in and typing anything is sort of out of the question...
Thanks in advance,
--
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Alexandra Ellwood finger aellwood@monk.mit.edu for PGP public key
IS/DCNS (MIT) http://www.mit.edu:8001/people/aellwood/aellwood.html
<aellwood@mit.edu> "Did you know there's pornography on the internet?"
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