> 
> > Seems to me we should get something, anything, in to fix this, even if
> > it's a scavenger that's run once a minute to find these extra shadow
> > objects and nuke them.
> 
> Uhm, I think this is a serious problem which should be fixed ASAP.

But it's a big problem.

> 
> > But then, given how core has been resisting bounce buffers in the i386
> > port, we may have to either live with (yet another) brokenness in the
> > VM subsystem or keep private patches for it.  Not that private patches
> > bother _me_ particularly; I've got over 100K of private patches
> > already.  But I know they bother some people.

I'm starting my own set as well.

> 
> Hmm, why doesn't core want problems to be solved?  What is their goal?
> To give us lots of bells and whistles while some of the basic functions
> of the OS are severely broken?

Hmmmmmmmmmm No, I don't think that's it. This isn't Lose95, it's Unix.

> 
> I am happy with NetBSD, but I don't understand why the VM problem has
> been ignored for so long.  I know it's not simple to fix, but it doesn't
> make it any less a problem.
> 
> I can't even tell any 'outsider' about the VM problem because that would
> make them think NetBSD is completely useless for professional users.

Because it seems the attitude on the mailing lists is of people looking
for the magic bullet. The "perfect" solution. Until that is found,
nothing will happen. Many people won't write code for a problem until
the mailing lists tend to agree on the solution, and if there is a
big debate and nobody sees a perfect solution, nothing happens.

FreeBSD has a solution to the VM system problem. But they don't have
a "perfect" solution, so there is no big movement to move their code
over to here.

> 
> Does anyone have an idea of how to fix the problem?  [Bounce buffers
> would be good, too, but you can get rid of that problem by buying a PCI
> SCSI interface...]
> 

I was under the impression that a platform-independent solution was
being looked at. Course, nobody has come up with a way to do this,
not even a semi-bad way, so the matter rests.

Didn't cgd show that platform-independent bounce-buffers can't
be done? Or at least can't be done for i386 + Alpha platforms?
I mean, we have plenty of i386 ways, but they don't work on
the alpha. (I think). So why not give in, put in the bounce
buffers on the i386, and then fix it if you come up with a
workable solution in the future.

Notice that ftp.cdrom.com is a FreeBSD box, Yahoo internet search
is a FreeBSD box, and NetBSD is doing not nearly as big a job
at anything. FreeBSD tends to be used for larger servers because
of those two problems. 

C'mon, put the bounce buffers in and be done with it!

XCOMM --------------------------------------------------------
XCOMM Kevin P. Neal, Sophomore CSC/CPE     kpneal@eos.ncsu.edu 
XCOMM North Carolina State University      kevinneal@bix.com
XCOMM --------------------------------------------------------