On Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 09:40:44AM -0600, Richard Rauch wrote:
> I'm not so sure about the idea of putting KDE on an install CD.  In any
> case, it's worth keeping straight that KDE is *not* a window manager; twm
> is a window manager.  KDE is a desktop; it happens to include a window
> manager, as well as a suite of integrated tools and toys.

Agreed. KDE can be nice, but only if you have plenty of RAM and a decent CPU
to go with it.

> IMHO, a traditional install CD, with a companion packages CD, is best.
> If one really wants a ``pop the CD in, and get something that has NetBSD
> buried in it somewhere but looks and feels like an unbelievably stable
> version of a Microsoft product'' thing, then a dual CD might be best: One
> traditional installation CD (from which install sets can be fetched) and
> one ``Microsoft-killer'' CD (from which a set of packages and
> configurations can be fetched to provide things such as a desktop,
> TeX/LyX/GhostScript, software development tools, etc.).

I agree there also, I like the fact that a NetBSD install cd is < 100MB. For
i386, at least, the three package cds are *very* nice to have as well, but I
prefer them to be optional.

> Providing things like the heretic2-demo might also be good.  (Is that
> still available?  I heard that the company that ported it to GNU/LINUX is
> no longer in business.  But if the binary can still be downloaded, it's a
> nice game-demo...if one is going to contemplate including KDE, certainly
> slick games should go in, too.  (^&)

the Heretic 2 demo was released by lokigames, wasn't it? Their website
doesn't seem to be responding, so I dunno whats up with them being in
business or not. Also, that might introduce some licensing issues that are
(IMHO) better taken care of after installation by having to do the
ACCEPTABLE_LICENSES+= thing in mk.conf.

> I think that this would better be done with a kind of meta-package system.
> Well, second-best.  *Best* is just to inform users about pkgsrc and let
> them do what they like, IMHO.  (^&

Agreed. Are the meta-packages in pkgsrc/meta-pkgs the kind of meta-package
you mean? if so, we already have the meta-package system.

> As for setting up X: It's *very* easy under XFree86 4.x.  At least it was
> for me, under 4.0.  (The only problem that 4.0 really had was that it
> generated a slightly bogus mouse configuration.  It either wanted
> /dev/mouse instead of /dev/wsmouse, or it wanted something like a PS/2
> mouse protocol instead of the WSmouse protocol.  If the autoconfig still
> bungles that, you can have a short script run sed over the config to fix
> it up.)

I've used both a PS2 and a USB mouse under NetBSD-current on i386 with X
4.1.0 and 4.2.0 without encountering that problem. xf86cfg does the right
thing, on my system at least.

> So, I guess that the upshot is:
> 
> XFree86 configuration probably isn't going to be a major hurdle.  I don't
> know if the auto-configuration is anywhere near reliable enough to count
> on it from sysinst, but it certainly could make life easier for many
> end-users.

xf86cfg is so much nicer than XF86Setup and xf86config. I think it might
also be worth considering switching from including XFree86 3.3.6 by default
to 4.2.0 (or whatever the latest in xsrc at the time of release is.) You
certainly get more (and better) hardware support with X 4.

> I don't care for the idea of tying KDE too closely to NetBSD.  I'd also be
> leery of accidentally creating the impression that NetBSD endorses KDE, or
> has integrated it, or that it is ``the'' way that people should use X on
> NetBSD.

Definetly agreed there. Personally, and I know this is an opinion thing, KDE
is too much of a Linux staple. I'm not trying to say Linux is bad, just that
I think NetBSD should be seperated from Linux in people's minds. Too many
people think that Linux is the only open-source OS out there, we need to let
them know there are better alternatives :-)


-Sean

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