> My point is: You're either trying to change the wrong things in the
> wrong places, or you're not adequately explaining what you're trying
> to do.

Probably both :-)

It looks like my basic problem is that I _do_ use the bsd.* macros for
things other than /usr/src.  I use them because they do what I want.
I have a collection of tools which I compile on about 6 different UNIX
flavours and BSD make and the bsd.* macros make that much easier.
>From what you and Mike have been saying, this is wrong... 

Hence my earlier suggestion about doing a set of {prog,lib,..}.mk
macros which are a bit more generic which the bsd.*.mk ones can
include - thus maintaining the current bsd.* functionality while also
providing something useful to things outside of /usr/src.

Looks like I have to do a set of {prog,lib}.mk macros anyway, the
above seems the right thing to me - maximum re-use of code, but if its
not going to be accepted into the tree is probably a waste of time.

> it looks like COPTS is there already, and exists for that purpose (or

You are right, sorry I'd missed that.  COPTS does indeed meet the -g
etc need so those PR's can be closed.

--sjg