Subject: Re: misc/33495
To: None <misc-bug-people@netbsd.org, gnats-admin@netbsd.org,>
From: Arto Selonen <arto@selonen.org>
List: netbsd-bugs
Date: 05/18/2006 09:50:02
The following reply was made to PR misc/33495; it has been noted by GNATS.
From: Arto Selonen <arto@selonen.org>
To: gnats-bugs@netbsd.org
Cc:
Subject: Re: misc/33495
Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 12:49:04 +0300 (EEST)
Hi!
Even though this PR might have already outlived its usefulness, I can't
help but offer some viewpoints, mostly for future reference in handling
these types of problems (in fortune(6), man pages, other documents, etc).
The main problem is that anything can be offensive to anybody, and this
could change very rapidly (think of any accident/catastrophe/etc that can
turn a positive thing into something very bad). One can not foresee these,
and so any reference can become offensive/rude.
Strongly related to this are the questions of "does anybody have a right
to not be offended?", and "how much effort should be put into trying to
avoid offending others?".
With regards to fortune(6), I think there should be a certain expectation
of getting offended, as there are lots of all sorts of aphorisms, jokes,
quotes, and what not in there (man page uses the term 'adage', which
according to the definitions google offers is reasonably accurate).
However, the man page also gives a somewhat false impression that some
"fortune cookies" might not be offensive. I'll argue that to be false.
*There are only potentially offensive adages there*. Some are "known" to
almost certainly offend many people, some have so far simply failed to
find the "wrong" audience for that particular piece.
So, the main change could be made to fortune(6) man page, so it would
remind readers of the potentially offensive content in there, regardless
of the category used. "Some effort has been made to classify the contents
into categories such as 'almost certainly offensive' and 'less offensive'.
However, due to the nature of these 'fortunes', any one of them may
offend you due to its content, relation to your life situation, or the
source or context of the quote. Therefore, it is simply impossible to
guarantee 100% non-offensive content in here. You have been warned."
(I just hate disclaimers).
As for classifying content into various levels of offensiveness:
(and I'm not referring to this specific PR, but rather to any content)
- just because the content references some group in a negative
manner, it does not automatically offend *all* those people
(eg. "Everybody is an idiot." => ~6 billion potentially offended)
- the content may not be offensive, but the context where it
comes from may offend those recognizing it, or those
who associate it with their own negative experiences
relating to it
(eg. whatever Hitler said may be offensive to many)
- even a very offensive content may have other values, such as
historical perspective, reminder of the dangers associated
with a concept, etc; there may be more value in making sure
the lesson is not forgotten, even if it means being offended
- truth may also be offensive, is lying or ignorance better, then?
- NetBSD may be used by children, should all content be made
"child-proof"? who should decide what is child-proof?
how does that relate to preserving some of the UNIX history
like command names, inside jokes, etc?
- what may have been funny might now be offensive, and what once
was offensive, may now be funny (possibly just because it used
to be offensive); how much effort should/could be put into
constantly re-classifying the contents as times and people change
- who could possibly make any classification decision correctly?
- NetBSD is a global effort, yet the world has not yet turned into
one homogeneous group, where we all share the same values and
experiences, so it can not possibly please everybody at the same
time while doing the same thing; there are only limited resources
for customizing it to various uses, however the source is
available and quite liberally licensed for everybody to make
their own modifications, should they so choose
Im summary: I find it impossible to classify content more than simply
saying "This may offend you". Maybe others are more successful.
I can only hope that people will be able to find strength,
once offended, to get past that experience and be able to
forgive others, understanding that the meaning was never to
purposefully offend in the first place.
Disclaimer: I don't represent anybody but myself, though I am thankful
for the NetBSD developers for their continued work, that has
made it possible for me to use the OS successfully for several
years in various environments.
Sincerely,
Arto Selonen
PS. My 3.99.18 gave only one Hitler quote with 'fortune -m Hitler', and
I failed to realize how that would match the properties given in the
original PR (I'm too young and too detached, I guess).
*Expanding* from that, some people who report offensive
fortunes in the future may understandably have difficulties in
describing a problem that causes them emotional distress. Those who
then try to correct the situation may not realize what the offensive
part is, and this may well lead to communication problems where nobody
is at fault, yet meaningful and polite discussion may prove elusive at
best. Hopefully, a mutual understanding will still be reached, even
when everybody is using a language foreign to them.
--
#######======------ http://www.selonen.org/arto/ --------========########
Everstinkuja 5 B 35 Don't mind doing it.
FI-02600 Espoo arto@selonen.org Don't mind not doing it.
Finland tel +358 50 560 4826 Don't know anything about it.