On Feb 14,  4:59pm, Joerg Sonnenberger wrote:
} On Mon, Sep 24, 2007 at 11:51:15AM -0700, John Nemeth wrote:
} > } Personally I would like to get rid of the special casing of NetBSD here.
} > } Means no pkg_install in base at all. If the requirements for that are
} > 
} >      Yes, I know you would, but I disagree.  pkgsrc is NetBSD's
} > packaging system.  It must be made simpler to use, not more complex.
} > NetBSD users should not have to jump through hoops in order to use it.
} > Really, we should be looking at stablising pkg_select (or something
} > like it) and adding it to pkg_install, which should stay in base.
} 
} So let's reiterate the problem. NetBSD insists on shipping pkg_install

     NetBSD insisting on shipping pkg_install with base is not a
problem, it is the way it should be.

} with base. pkg_install gets updated in pksrc for new features. NetBSD

     It should be updated in base at the same time or very shortly
thereafter.

} (a) Overwriting /usr/sbin/pkg_* is bad -- you update your world and you

     Why is this so bad?  Yes, in general, pkgsrc shouldn't be writing
outside of /usr/pkg, but sometimes exceptions need to be made.  This
was done until very recently, and I'm not aware of any serious problems
caused by it.

} now have a different version, completely unexpected.

     Since pkg_install should be kept up to date in base this shouldn't
be a major issue.  If you do happen downgrade pkg_install, then you
will simply get a message telling you that pkg_install is too old.
This is the same thing that happens now when pkgsrc/mk/* changes
require a newer version of pkg_install and you don't upgrade it right
away, so it is no big deal.

} (b) pkg_install could move away the old version in /usr/sbin. Same issue
} as (a).

     Yep, bad idea.

} (c) User modifies PATH or adds aliases.

     This is very bad.  Users shouldn't have to jump through hoops, and
they shouldn't be given nasty surprises if they fail to jump through
those hoops.  This directly relates to the usability and polish of
NetBSD.

} (d) pkg_install gets dropped from base. Oh wonder, now we have the same
} situation as on all other pkgsrc platforms.

     This argument doesn't hold any water.  pkgsrc isn't native to
those systems.  Those systems come with their native packaging systems
as part of their base installs and don't make you jump through hoops to
use them.  If you want to use pkgsrc on a system other then NetBSD then
you expect to have to do something to make it work.

     Yes, I know that DragonFlyBSD has adopted pkgsrc and that you are
a DragonFlyBSD developer as well.  I see that they don't have
pkg_install in base.  However, since I don't use DragonFlyBSD, that
doesn't concern me.  They can do what they want.

     We aren't talking about any other systems here, we are talking
about NetBSD.  NetBSD users MUST NOT have to jump through hoops to use
their native packaging system!  Regardless of how many systems are
supported by pkgsrc, it still originated on NetBSD and it is NetBSD's
native packaging system.  The fact that it has been adapted to work on
other systems is really great, but that doesn't negate the previous
point.

}-- End of excerpt from Joerg Sonnenberger