Hi all,

On Tue 20 May, Peter Burwood wrote:
> 
> This is important to understand because 2.8 has been due out in a month
> or so for over a year (though perhaps not always `out in a month' during
> the last year). If everyone had known this, just howmany `when is it
> going to be released' messages do you think would be floating around the
> place ?

We don't know when gcc 2.8 is coming out. If one of my colleagues said this
then they were talking rubbish, but I very much doubt that one of
them did.

> > [optimisations for a commercial customer]
> >
> > I think a mention of pmap was made, and is being paid for by a company,
> > so again, it's if they let it be released.
> 
> This is the sort of thing that causes me to worry about my continued use
> of NetBSD. I've no objection to Mark et al doing what they are doing and
> running a business with NetBSD as one of their core products, but it
> upsets me that we have to live with the possibility of never seeing
> these improvements. For example, the pmap code as it is now makes the
> performance of the SA version very poor compared with its rated
> performance.

You're getting the wrong end of the stick here, Pete. These things were
only being *shown* and not *given away* because in a lot of cases they hve
not finished development yet. You *will* see a release of NetBSD, with
shared libraries (these do not necessarily hinge upon gcc 2.8), with
soft float support, with new pmap() code, within the next couple of months.
The people we are working with on these developments in many cases *insist*
that the changes are released into the free tree; it's just a question of when.

> I would be happier if improvements to NetBSD were done on something like
> a contract base for Causality who then sold it onto their customer. I'm
> probably treading on dodgy ground here, especially since I don't know
> the real situation, but I've always thought of NetBSD as being a free
> *BSD Unix (including source) available for everyone. If a customer wants
> a specially engineered release, then this is the type of service I would
> be expect something like Causality to be providing, not private code
> which fixes important problems in the kernel. Perhaps the customer needs
> properly educating in the philosphy of NetBSD (or perhaps I do?). How do
> the other NetBSD architectures work in this respect ?

Believe me, the customers certainly really do understand the free philisophy,
and love it.

> became available. The current situation is making me consider moving to
> Linux/ARM. I really would have liked to attend Wakefield to discuss this
> matter with Mark and Neil et al, but the F.A. Cup was more important to
> me and the distance and travel arrangements meant it was too far.

You can of course move to ARMLinux if you want; it's hopefuly likely that
we and them will be a bit more cooperative in future on device drivers et
al. I've a meeting with a guy sooon to chat about this.

> Obviously, I would also like to say that I am grateful for the effort
> put in by everyone associated with NetBSD and I would like it to
> continue that way. However, I really would like clarification on the
> issues I have raised above.

Give me a call at home sometime (before midnight :) ), if you're still left
in doubt.

> > What this means for RiscBSD:
> > Shared libs will appear with the gcc 2.8

Nope :-) The ones we have atm work from gcc 2.7.2.

> > Source code for the Digital NC's will be appearing some time soon.

Yep, certainly. Basically as soon as Digital send the tree now Mark has
got his new 6.5 Gig of storage up and running :-)

> > Digital want the source code to be available mainly so that developers
> > have access to one central place for source code for the NC :)

Digital want the source code to be free to all, for all the benefits that
may bring.

> > Other things will come along once the legal bits of paper are signed.
> 
> This concerns me slightly, as outlined above. Perhaps Mark or Neil can
> allay my fears/concerns ?

Nope; just when all agree to release the stuff (ie. when its finished,
tested, and working properly). The free releasing is a foregone conclusion
in most cases.

	Regards,
	
	Neil

-- 
Neil A. Carson
Marketing Director              Causality Limited (London, UK)
Tel/Fax: +44 (0)181 930 7408    Mobile: +44 (0)370 593183
Email: neil@causality.com       WWW: http://www.causality.com.