On Sun, 16 Jul 2000, Neil A. Carson wrote:

> Yes, and I can sympathise. But the real question that you have to ask
> yourself is, for a new user, what does NetBSD really buy you over Linux?
> 
> Sure, as an OS developer having all the sources in one tree is
> useful---no need to maintain versions on a gazillion different
> things---and many aspects of the architecture are "better," but at the
> end of the day these mean nothing to Joe end user who buys his disc from
> SuSE and sticks it into the CD ROM drive.
> 
	In a word, choice.

	NetBSD buys that end user being able to play with different
	hardware, frequently obsolete, but sometimes not - mips based
	WindowsCE handhelds and the Dreamcast (with more development)
	come into mind. It also buys a cleaner system with which to
	administrate and learn.

	Not to everyone's taste, and I don't expect NetBSD to be able to
	compete head on with large linux distributions on 'tick box'
	features, but the unix user market is growing, and there is a
	small percentage of that market that would enjoy NetBSD more.

	Having an easier installation and better documentation will
	increase that small percentage, which in turn increased the
	chance of better documentation and suchlike.

> Fine, NetBSD hasn't been commercialised and some could argue this works
> for it as well as against it. But too many important buzzword features
> are missing for the tecky user (who's a bit more knowledgable than Joe
> user) who likes something "cool." At the end of the day, NetBSD really
> wins if you need to build, develop for it, and maybe port it.
> 
	Its also a haven for those who feel code quality should be
	valued above hype. The only thing NetBSD could be said to hype
	_is_ code quality, and that is not entirely without basis in
	fact. There are many important buzzword features that NetBSD
	has picked up - some before other free OSs, and more will be
	picked up as time progresses. 

> I've sold many hundreds of NetBSD/arm32 CDs over the years, though
> mainly before Linux's rise in popularity. These days, all people want is
> Linux. Fine, NetBSD could probably be ported to yet another ARM platform
> that Linux doesn't go on, but to win another 4 users, what's the point?
> 
	Because those people would prefer to run NetBSD on those boxes,
	and those doing the port enjoy the project. Why have any other
	linux distributions when redhat can be used by all?

	Also it may just help someone later who wants to use a non GPLed
	OS on an embedded system that shares some of the same hardware.

> So I think trying to promote NetBSD on the Acorn machine vs. Linux on
> the Acorn machine won't make much difference. The Linux PR is better,
> the Linux features are higher in number, and the Linux distributions are
> easier to use for new users (not sure on the ARM, but the minority
> architectures will probably follow what happens to the majority, at
> least in terms of popularity etc). SuSE 6.4's admin and installation
> environments, combined with journaling, bundled office applications etc.
> make the system great for a user unfamiliar with UNIX as they don't have
> to chuck themselves in at the deep end.

	Yes - linux has picked up a very pretty admin interface, behind
	which hides a swap of the foulest nature. Pray to god you never
	have to do anything other than follow the obvious of admin tasks,
	or you are in for an unhappy time of wading through it all.

	Sound like Microsoft at all?

	On the intel platform linux is a much easier choice (though
	some of us find NetBSD more than capable there). On the minority
	platforms NetBSD can make a much better showing, but it is more
	dependant on a smaller developer community, which is unfortunately
	overbusy on the arm32 front.

	I've been using NetBSD since around 1.0, and its grown
	consistently better featured, easier to install, admin, and add
	packages, without the runaway growth I see in linux.

	I'm sure many people prefer the linux way, but some do not - its
	all down to choice.
	
> In any case, I think the whole Linux thing is way overrated too. All
> this "yeah, we're slamming Microsoft" crap and slashdotties is just
> pathetic. I mean, the platform doesn't even have a decent debugger, a
> bad compiler (no insult to those who work on it of course, it's just
> nobody unpaid can afford to re-invent such a big wheel) or even a decent
> web browser!!! For me, anyway, the toolchain and browser are the most
> important things! And on my machines at work, NT handles load much
> smoother than Linux, and runs the same X-Windows and all the unix tools
> I've come to love anyway as Linux does---it just runs them better. Fine,
> it might not be free, but I'd buy the nice car rather than getting a
> free clapped out one.

	Now you're scaring me :)

	I've had my share of bad experiences on NT, but also had to really
	rely on it with varying degrees of success.

	The Free unix world and NT both have a lot to learn from each
	other, but in how to do things, and how to not do things.

	One thing the free unix world does well is using the community.
	If the NetBSD/arm32 community (I'm planning on counting myself
	among that again when I get my RiscPC back from the 'States :),
	has time to help testing and debugging, please step forward now...

                David/absolute
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