A really big thanks for everyone's $0.02 on this question. I knew I
could count on you guys for honest info...
	Well, since my websever will be doing only basic static HTML pages
for now, and I only use ssh into the firewall occasionally, I'll use the
Sparcs for now. If any of the Sparcs becomes a bottleneck, I'll stick a
Multia in it's place. Here's a basic summary of what everyone said (original
message at end)...


Chris' thoughts, and my replys ---

! The Multias tend to die of heat...
--- Yeah, I've had this happen to one. I've since modified the fans on the
others, to cover this....

! SS1 and SS2 are rock solid hardware,
--- Good to know...

! however You can plug any and almost all PCI cards into
! a multia and netbsd works with them (FDDI, Fiber Channel,
! 100Mbps ethernet, etc etc)
--- Yep, is a nice feature...

! for SBUS support, expect slim pickings for variety, however, 
! those that are
! supported, work 100%.
--- Well I have all the Sun hardware I'd need, until I want to go 100baseT
on my LAN, but then again, the outside is still limited to 10baseT by the
DSL modem.

! Chris

-------------------------------------------------------------

! -----Original Message-----
! From: Volker Borchert [mailto:bt@insiders-fs.com]
! Subject: Re: DEC Multias or SS1+ & SS2? 
! 
! <20010726144205.B17652-100000@turtle.looksharp.net> you write:
! 
! |> 1) They're faster.  This will be important if you're going 
! |> to need to ssh into the machine.
! 
! SSH isn't that bad. It's somewhat annoying on a 3/80, but anything
! from a 4/60 (SS-1) upwards is OK.

I can tolerate it, the few times I do check in from the outside world

! |> 2) They have commodity expansions slots (PCI & PCMCIA) 
! |> which are easier to add a second interface to than
! |> Sbus. This will be important for the firewall.
! 
! Eh? What is so difficult about
! - get a 501-2015 FSBE/S for $75 from your favourite used Sun dealer
! - add /etc/hostname.le1
! - shudown -h (init 0 or 5 if Solaris)
! - plug FSBE/S into any SBus slot except the slave-only one in a SS-1
! - boot (-r if Solaris)

I have a second SBUS NIC.

! |> The Multia's have one distinct disadvantage:
! |> 1) They're far less reliable than the Sparcs.
! 
! I don't have experience with Multias, but I think it would be very
! difficult to find hardware more reliable than those old sun4c's.

Well, I just gotta keep 'em (Multias) cool...

! |> Use a Multia for your firewall.  Allow ssh access to the firewall
! |> machine, from which you can use r services on your private network.
! 
! I wouldn't trust my firewall for r services. After all, the firewall
! is there to protect my network, if necessary by sacrificing itself.

True. I'll keep that in mind...

! |> a couple of sparcs for your other servers, with the fastest sparc
! |> with the most RAM and disk drawing the job of webserver.
! 
! If you think you might like to play with SSL or servlets on the
! web server any time in the future, don't use a SS-1/1+/2. SSL is
! annoyingly, Java just horribly slow. Been there, done that
! (SS-2, SunOS 5.7, Apache, mod_ssl, JServ/tomcat) - just about
! unusable.

Well, if/when I get to that point, I'll be developing it on a Multia (or
better) machine anyway. Then I'll just swap the machines around.

---   David A Woyciesjes
---   C & IS Support Specialist
---   Yale University Press
---   mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu
---   (203) 432-0953
---   ICQ # - 905818

! > ----- Original Message -----
! > From: "David Woyciesjes" <DAW@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu>
! > Subject: DEC Multias or SS1+ & SS2?
! > 
! > Okay, here's the situation. I got a 10baseT network, with a DSL
! > connection. I'm wondering what you all thought would be a
! >  better setup for my NetBSD servers (all with minimal custom
! >  kernels, of course!).
! >
! > Firewall:    Web/ftp:      DHCP/ftp for LAN
! > 32 MB RAM    64(or32?)RAM  64(or32?)RAM
! > 340 MB HDD   1.5 GB HDD    1 GB HDD
! > ---All are Digital Equip. Multias 166 MHz
! >
! > ... or would this be fine, considering what the Sparcs are 
! > good for ...
! >
! > Firewall:     Web/ftp:    DHCP/ftp for LAN
! > SS1+ 25 MHz   SS2 40 MHz  SS1+ 25 MHz
! > 64 MB RAM     64 MB RAM   64 MB RAM
! > 500 MB HDD    2 GB HDD    2 GB HDD
! > ---All are Sun SPARCStations
! >
! > ...Or would a mix be best? HDD sizes can/will be changed as 
! > necessary...