RE: MUAs and quoting [was Re: qe missing config reference to if_uba]

[Josh Moyer <JMoyer%nodomain.net@localhost>]

Hmm, I hesitate to send this... so much for better judgement... ;-)

I've used Outlook since about 1999, in large part because I was on the Microsoft Exchange team <asbestos flame suit on> (and was a junior sendmail admin prior -- possibly even on Apollo DOMAIN/OS, but memory is hazy, may have been Alpha/OSF/1.)  I'm not particularly tied to Outlook as a MUA -- more tied to my mailbox, which I believe can still be accessed by POP3 and IMAP4.  Guess I'm stuck with copy/paste into a Thunderbird window for now, until I configure it to work with my mail server.  <lazy shrug>

Times have changed some, however, and aside from the option of running it all on my KA655, there is also Windows Subsystem for Linux, which seems slow, honestly.  (Perhaps due to virtualization nesting.)  Perhaps I will check out some of the text MUAs that you mentioned on WSL or NetBSD -- thanks for the recommendations.  (Obviously NetBSD/vax is BY FAR the more authentically UNIX choice.)

Perhaps it's time to dust off _both_ sides of my emacs quick reference card, which I once re-distributed (with some good humor and reception and in compliance with the licensing terms) to my teammates at Google back in the day... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urcL86UpqZc)

--
Kind regards,
Josh/NODOMAIN.NET

-----Original Message-----
From: port-vax-owner%NetBSD.org@localhost <port-vax-owner%NetBSD.org@localhost> On Behalf Of Mouse
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2025 8:23 AM
To: port-vax%NetBSD.org@localhost
Subject: MUAs and quoting [was Re: qe missing config reference to if_uba]

(Yeah, offtopic.  I won't pursue it very far onlist.)

> Ps.  What mailer do you use/recommend for quoting?  Outlook, sadly 
> (don't laugh), is not very good at it, it seems.

Based on the little I can tell, Outlook is good at almost nothing except annoying people who have encountered better MUAs.  (I haven't used it myself as far as I can recall, but both its network-visible behaviour and the behaviours it typically provokes from people are pretty horrible.)

I'd recommend almost anything else, and I say "almost" only because I'm sure _something_ out there is even worse.  I have run into a webmail interface that appears to give no control whatsoever over the quoted text (it's entirely hidden); that might count as worse, at least as far as handling quoted text goes.

If I were saddled with Outlook, honestly, I'd copy the message I'm replying to into a text editor, compose the email, and then copy the result into a new, non-started-as-a-reply, mail.  That's basically what I do on the few occasions when I have to use that webmail interface I mentioned above (one of my workplaces imposes it on us).

Since you mention Outlook, I suspect you're using Windows.  My first recommendation in that case would be to ditch Windows, at least for mailreading; if you don't consider that an option, all I have to suggest is ssh to something saner and then use a text MUA (mutt, elm, mh, alpine, etc - there are many).

As for what I use, I wrote my own MUA.  It's text-based and uses the user's preferred text editor (in my case, a Gosling emacs variant) for composition, including handling of quoted text.  You're welcome to a copy if you want it, but - especially if you're on Windows - it may not be of much use to you.  (But it may; the OS I use it on is NetBSD.)

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