In article <199801161925.LAA03090@andare.fugue.com>,
Ted Lemon  <mellon@hoffman.vix.com> wrote:
> 
> I'm sorry to have seen you put through the wringer like this, Todd.
> You have been trying to accomplish a good thing, and we all appreciate
> that.  But you've also been treating public criticism with entirely
> the wrong attitude.  NetBSD is as good as it is largely because we

Really? It seems to me he's tried _very_ hard to listen to objections
and modify his proposal quite significantly.  The only one he may be
ignoring is Charles, and given how Charles is acting, it's hardly
supprising that he isn't getting his point across.  If he'd try calmly
explaining his objections rather than raving about what an idiot Todd is
for not getting it, maybe he'd have better luck.

I've tried to figure out the problem is Charles is describing (and
chances are if he sees a problem there likely is one), but it's
difficult to wade through all the flaming -- and it's not even flaming
directed at me.  Imagine how difficult it is for Todd to ignore it.  Yet
he did -- you'll note that in his responses to Charles he managed to try
to address the technical questions and didn't flame Charles back.  He
kept the high ground -- he should be applauded for that, not criticized. 

Why is Todd, who was being quite flexible, being criticized for not
being even more flexible, while Charles isn't expected to modify his
behavior? His admirable technical knowlegde should *not* be a license to
act like a jerk. I get the feeling that Todd and others are considered
expendable by the project, while Charles is not, and as a result people
are expected to conform their behavior to work with him, rather than the
other way around. 

> don't shoot people down for being
> impolite.  "It works" has never been good enough for us.

Wait a second... we shouldn't shoot people down for being impolite, but
we should shoot them down for not putting up with impolite people.  It's
OK to be a jerk, but wrong not to put up with someone being a jerk? What
kind of value system is that? If you have kids, would you raise them
that way? It's time for someone to stand up and say "This is wrong. 
Enough is enough."

> Another important part of being a NetBSD hacker is losing gracefully.
> You are not here to make your mark on the NetBSD code.  I've been
> hacking on NetBSD for close to five years now.  Go see for yourself
> how many times my name appears in the NetBSD sources.  The point of
> hacking on NetBSD is to make the code base better, not to get your
> way.  If a lot of experienced people are arguing with you about how to
> do it, let go of your ego and see if you can understand why.  And if,
> upon understanding, it turns out that your idea wasn't so great, don't
> pick up your toys and go home - suck it up and implement The Right
> Solution, even though it's not yours.

Seems to me this paragraph might more appropriately be directed to
Charles than Todd, but whatever.