Re: Enhancing ukbd for Apple notebooks

[Michael <macallan%netbsd.org@localhost>]

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Hello,

On Nov 27, 2010, at 6:10 AM, Frank Wille wrote:

> Michael wrote:
>
> > > I completely agree that it is not nice, and I already thought about
> > > turning the Alt/Option key into AltGr. But then we would miss Alt
> > > under
> > > NetBSD (which is used in various X11-based GUIs). The Apple/Command
> > > keys,
> > > on the other hand, are not needed.
> >
> > In my opinion the keys should do what the label says, option should  
> > be
> > alt and the right option key should behave like the right alt key on
> > every other keyboard on the planet,
>
> The label for the right alt key shows "Alt", not "AltGr". This means  
> the
> current wscons behaviour is wrong for Apple keyboards, as it turns the
> right alt key into AltGr? I just verified that on my Apple Pro  
> keyboard.

s/and/but ;)

> > The Command keys should probably become Meta.
>
> Ok. So we don't swap any keys or change their meaning. Agreed.

That's what I meant, more or less.

> But then the problem on Apple notebook keyboards, where you only  
> have the
> left Alt key, remains: Where is the AltGr key?

Either we use the right alt key since that's probably what (almost)  
everyone would expect, or, if I remember correctly, AltGr used to be  
more or less equivalent to Ctrl-Alt.

> Without that key all users of non-US keymaps won't be able to type  
> important
> characters like |, \, @, [, {, ~.

In my opinion we should do what people would expect on a BSD/X11 box.  
If we were going to imitate OSX we'd have to do it consistently and  
that would mean things like ctrl-x/c/v vs. Cmd-x/c/v and so on. Since  
that's not really under our control we should try to be unixy not some  
weird mix of some OSXisms and unixisms.

> A solution must be found.

To recap, my opinion is this:
- - keys should do what the label says, no shifting things around to  
match PC layouts
- - we need AltGr, most people will expect it to be the right Alt key,  
so that should be the (hopefully only ) exception
- - left/right Command key should become left/right Meta
I think trying to emulate OSX is a bad idea since we can't do it  
consistently. Sure, we could do it in wscons but not really in X and  
kde/gnome/whatever.

have fun
Michael

That said, 
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