On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Greg A. Woods wrote:

# [ On Thursday, June 28, 2001 at 13:26:14 (-0500), John Darrow wrote: ]
# > Subject: Re: Locations of some packages baffles me
# >
# > Greywolf <greywolf@starwolf.com> wrote:
# > >
# > >Okay, I didn't realise that xpkgwedge was an issue in this.  All I knew
# > >was that if we were going to mix X11 stuff in ${LOCALBASE}, why have
# > >${LOCALBASE} at all?
# > 
# > Try turning that around:
# > 
# > If we're going to mix stuff that just happens to use x11 libraries but
# > comes from pkgsrc, with the X11 system itself that comes from /usr/xsrc,
# > then why have LOCALBASE at all?  Why not just mix "non-x11" pkgsrc stuff
# > into /usr/bin with the rest of the system binaries?
# 
# Both of you are completely missing the point, entirely!

In your opinion.

# If you don't want to mix pkgsrc stuff with system stuff then you
# definitely do not want to mix x11-related stuff from pkgsrc into
# /usr/X11*!  

Why not?

Base system stuff is as distributed, i.e. sacrosanct (in my opinion and
experience).
X11 is an add-on and therefore goes somewhere else (in my opinion and
experience).

Mixing pkg stuff into X11 is FAR less onerous than mixing pkg stuff in
with system stuff (in my opinion and experience).

# To do so is to be a hypocrite -- you may as well not have
# ${LOCALBASE} indeed, but for entirely the opposite reasons you've both
# tried to suggest.

As I said, I misrepresented myself and then realised how silly it was
that I was trying to say.

# 
# > That way lies madness.  (or Linux.)
# 
# And that's absolutely not true (and linking the mere idea to "Linux" is
# just evil F.U.D. spreading)

Again, in your opinion.  For the record, and this is MY opinion, I do NOT
want everything living under the same tree!  I have different sh?t in
different places for a REASON:  It's easier to deal with manually IF I
CHOOSE TO.

Please do not force hierarchy integration.  I look at how you have it
and I can say "ew".  However, it's your system.  Do as you will.
Don't even think about the possibility of considering that it's good
for everybody.  You want everything under /bin, you go for it.  That's
your prerogative.  I think that's messy as hell and overpopulates
a directory and makes it harder to read.

# > Frankly... I think that separating the packages into two categories
# > (X11BASE and non-X11BASE) was a bad idea in the first place, and that
# > it's even necessary to use something like xpkgwedge to get them back
# > together the way they should be is sad...
# 
# Now that I cannot disagree with.  I can explain it though, but the
# explanation is, unfortunately, even more sad:  imake.

That's something I could deal without as well.

# 
# In the end the whole concept of ${anythingBASE} is completely and
# totally bogus in the face of a proper package management system
# (i.e. what we have almost already got).

...unless you're actually at least a partially organic life form who's
trying to make heads or tails of the system.  Database grovelers for
the entirety of the system just to see what's there is totally bogus
in the face of a proper hierarchy (i.e. what we once had and I will now
be putting effort into restoring).

# Other than the fact that a single bin directory starts to get quite
# large, there's absolutely no reason why everything shouldn't be
# installed in *ONE* consistent hierarchy.

I've already presented my arguments regarding the splitting out of / and
/usr and such into different filesystems.  If anyone is unfamiliar,
talk to me via email because everyone else is likely tired of that
discussion.  Hell, _I'm_ tired of that discussion every time it comes up
any more, and I'll just say that if you want to do your system that way,
great.  I don't.  Don't force it on me.  If that change were forced, it
would be much harder to split out than it is right now to integrate
everything.

# All we're missing, in NetBSD, is the proper pakaging for the base
# system (including the X11 bits).

That's not entirely true.  Every time this discussion comes up, I think
we're starting to miss some of our sanity.

# 
# -- 
# 							Greg A. Woods
# 
# +1 416 218-0098      VE3TCP      <gwoods@acm.org>     <woods@robohack.ca>
# Planix, Inc. <woods@planix.com>;   Secrets of the Weird <woods@weird.com>
# 


				--*greywolf;
--
"Windows/NT - From the people who brought you EDLIN".